We have a lot of members who discovered composing later in their musical journey – and you are one! Could you tell us about making the transition from performer to songwriter, composer, and arranger? Were there any distinct advantages or disadvantages of this transition that affected your career or creativity?

First of all, thank you so much for having me! It’s a privilege to be interviewed by someone as awesome and accomplished as you and for such a fantastic group as the AWFC.

I started as a competitive classical pianist from a very young age, and that’s a pretty linear path. Since the technique and repertoire requirements are so high, you spend all your time working on those elements. I was very lucky to have been given a strong music theory background, so that made it much easier for me when I started writing. My father is a classical guitarist and my parents both love jazz, so I was exposed to jazz from a young age as well – I was obsessed with Keith Jarrett’s The Köln Concert and would play that record over and over. But for some reason, it never occurred to me until much later that I could improvise, play jazz, or compose myself. I know it sounds ridiculous, but I literally thought when I was a kid that jazz musicians had some magic gene or something I didn’t have! As an adult, I finally realized that it was something that could be taught and practiced, so I started studying it.

The way that I transitioned into songwriting and composition was this: when I was learning rootless chord voicings, they weren’t intuitive for me, so I made flash cards to drill with. When I would pull my little cards out in random order, some of the combinations of chords would sound so great to me, and that’s how I started writing. I was in shock when I wrote my first song – I didn’t realize I could do it at all! I thought it was an accident and I’d never write anything else, which is so funny to me now but also indicative of how narrow the path that was initially presented to me was. Now, composing and songwriting have become so natural for me. Initially, I started writing original songs with lyrics and then morphed into arranging and composition, so it’s interesting that I came full circle back to a more instrumental and classical style.

In your experience, how do the jazz scene and the film & TV music community intersect in LA?

Personality-wise, I find that jazz musicians and film composers are quite similar types – I’m happy to nerd out about music theory or go down the rabbit hole of musicians or albums I love, and I find plenty of people like that in both communities! And since the creative jazz scene in LA has such great players, people dovetail into the film and TV music scene through session work and writing scores themselves, even though they may primarily be performers.

I think jazz and classical musicians are not that far off from each other since they’re both complicated mediums demanding a certain knowledge and virtuosity to play at a high level, and since film score originates largely from classical music, I think the groups and mindsets overlap. I do think that the Los Angeles film and TV community has more established networking resources like the AWFC, the SCL, ASMAC, and all the other great organizations we’re so lucky to have here. Jazz networking is much looser; there are some great support groups like the Los Angeles Jazz Society, but not nearly as many as for film and television. I wish we had more, but I also love the organic nature of the jazz community and how people meet each other through shows, sessions, and common friends and colleagues. What I do find is that jazz musicians really respect the film and TV community here and vice versa. I personally Venn diagram into several music communities, and I’m sure plenty of other composers and musicians do too, which is what makes Los Angeles such a vibrant and exciting place to be, for me at least.

You often co-write and produce albums for both yourself and others! What is your approach when collaborating with other artists who also speak music?

I really love writing with anyone who’s a musical person, regardless of if they have an established music vocabulary or not. Of course, it makes things easier if you have a common language, but it’s also fun for me to decipher what someone means who may not be saying something the way I’m used to. I had a wonderful collaborator named Larry Wolf, who was an ensemble member of many of Robert Downey Sr.’s films in the 1960s and 1970s and was a really fascinating and unique person. I produced and played on two albums he did of jazz standards, and we were working on an album of originals when he unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago. He had a huge knowledge of and affinity for straight-ahead jazz and was so natural at writing melodies and lyrics in that style. Even if a melody wasn’t always quite what he wanted, I knew him so well at that point that I could infer what he probably meant and make suggestions until it was the sound he had in his head. Since he was unquestionably the expert in that style of music, I deferred to his sensibilities and loved coming up with the musical setting. We were working on an album of originals that sounded as though they could have been written in the 1930s or 1940s (and one kind of psychedelic-sounding 1960s-esque one) when he got sick. One of our songs was recorded for a documentary about Robert Downey Sr., and I’d love to complete the album at some point in honor of him.

Speaking of your iconic collaborations, you have an upcoming recording project with Susan Siphron, who just completed a sonata she started when she was 17. She finished it at 83. I can’t even imagine the amount of feelings, experiences, and wisdom that this piece embodies. Could you tell us about the project, your role, and your process with Susan?

It’s such an interesting project – my friend Jules Pegram, who I met when we were both in the Society of Composers and Lyricists’ mentorship program, is her composition teacher and recommended me to her as the pianist for this recording. The amazing thing about the sonata is that it is clearly written by the same person, despite the 66-year gap in movements. Susan has a very specific and strong voice that I particularly connect with. Influences I hear in her work are Copland, Poulenc, Barber, and other modern composers who I love, but she definitely has her own instincts and style. She says that she didn’t know what she was doing when she wrote the first movement at such a young age, but it’s so sophisticated, especially for a novice composer. The later movements that she wrote at 83 fuse together perfectly with the first. The second movement is beautifully lyrical and evocative, and the third she calls “the imp” – it has a sense of mischief and whimsy to it. The whole thing is avant-garde but has these really beautiful melodic passages interspersed among the more dissonant ones.

She’s also written a number of shorter pieces called Suite for Young People. They’re too difficult for most kids to play, but they have a youthful sensibility and are the type of classical music that I think kids might really enjoy in addition to adults. Her modern sensibilities and influences are present in all of these pieces as well. I’ve always loved sophisticated music for kids – Peter and the Wolf and The Carnival of the Animals come to mind, but there are also some wonderful pieces by Tansman, Khachaturian, Bartok, and so many more written for children that don’t speak down to them or water down the genre. I feel like her suite fits squarely into that canon, and I’m thrilled to be working on her music!

In addition to all your creative endeavors, you are also the vocal contractor for Joy Music House, working closely with our wonderful past president, Catherine Joy! Can you tell us about the selection and hiring process of the vocalists and how involved you are with the recording sessions?

I can’t recommend working with one of your best friends highly enough! I’m so grateful for the opportunity Catherine gave me, and I’ve loved working on all the projects we’ve done. One of my Venn diagram intersections is the Los Angeles singer community, so I know and have worked with lots of wonderful vocalists. People are also incredibly generous with recommendations, so I’m always hearing of and meeting new singers. In terms of selection, since many projects require the ability to read notation, that’s often a consideration. Beyond that, the requirements of each project dictate the hiring process. I booked a 32-piece choir for a live Emile Mosseri concert a couple of years ago that required singers to have choral experience and be able to read and blend; on the other end of the spectrum, I booked a 4-piece male vocalist ensemble for a project that didn’t rely on notation, but the singers needed to be strong improvisers and able to adapt to direction quickly in the studio. Not everyone can do that, so all skill sets can come in handy.

I’m always as involved as possible in the studio, but depending on the project, I may be required to be one of the singers, so in those instances, I would be the most involved as both performer and contractor. One such project I did with Catherine was as part of an 8-piece mixed choir for the musical episode of The L Word: Generation Q, with music written by our fabulous AWFC presidents Heather McIntosh and Allyson Newman, as well as the wonderful Taura Stinson, who as you know is on the AWFC’s board of directors. That was an absolute blast – the singers were all awesome, and the music was truly great with tons of stacked vocal harmonies, which I love doing. They were nominated for an Emmy for one of the songs called “All About Me,” which was really exciting! I felt extremely privileged to have been involved with that project and am very proud of it.

You are also closely working with other vocalists on your own projects, such as Gullah Meditations. Please tell us more about how you and tenor Victor Ryan Robertson are working hand in hand in preserving these spiritual pieces of music, and therefore history!

This is another project where I’m lucky enough to be working with one of my best friends! Vic is a world-class operatic tenor who was nominated for a Grammy in 2023 – we met in my hometown of Atlanta years ago. While he was performing in Porgy and Bess at the Spoleto Festival, he was given access to an out-of-print edition of rare Gullah Geechee spirituals that he asked me to arrange. The spirituals are likely from the 1800s and would have been passed down orally, so that coupled with the fact that the book is out of print means that yes, this is indeed musical and historical preservation. There’s a lot of responsibility as an arranger in making sure this music is honored properly; we both want to make sure to present this music in a way that respects its original writers and past while bringing it forward to new audiences.

Since the spirituals are melody and lyrics only and there are no harmonic indications at all, this is really more of a composition project. Essentially, I wrote instrumental compositions for the melodies to sit on top of while taking into account the origins of the music and lyrics but also Vic’s voice and classical background. Vic and I have been geeking out about music since the day we met and have very similar sensibilities, so it’s been a really organic process – I’ve arranged eighteen spirituals so far.

Once there was enough material written and rehearsed, we started doing duo recitals. Vic was performing in Malcolm X at the Metropolitan Opera in the fall of 2023, so we did a recital in New York to coincide with his show. That recital connected us with Penn Center in South Carolina, which is the main center for Gullah Geechee historic and cultural preservation. Penn Center was the site of many civil rights retreats in the 1960s and where Martin Luther King Jr. drafted his “I Have A Dream” speech. We performed there in April of last year, which was an incredible experience – we played in the same hall that Dr. King both preached and sang in!

The plan is to eventually do a fully orchestrated recording, but we’re focused on performing as much as we can. We’re doing a residency at Penn Center in May and have upcoming concerts at the Sumter Opera House in South Carolina and with Victory Hall Opera in Virginia. It’s a really exciting project both as composer and performer – I adore performing as a duo with Vic, and I think audiences can feel our friendship and energy as well as our admiration of the original material. I can’t wait to see where it goes!

Interview by Esin Aydingoz

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